The Mail Bag
January 2000 archive
The Good
GM Production Managers viewpoint
The Bad
If anyone from GM is reading this and would like to offer assistance to any of these unfortunate lemon sufferers then please send me email and I will see about putting you in touch.
The Ugly (or just wierd)
Another (alledged) GM employee speaks out
Older Email
From: Anon
Subject: some agreement here...
I am very sorry to hear about your Suburban experiences. As a General Motors employee I am embarrassed. I work as a production manager for GM Truck Group in Baltimore and we really do build great vans...if you ever decide to try GM again I would recommend our van. It comes in all wheel drive as well and can tow a lot.
But anyway, as easy as it may be to say "well you must have gotten the bad one" -I feel upset about the Suburban you owned. I have seen the fine workmanship on other Suburbans built in Wisconsin - but the one's built in Mexico are awful! I saw one at a carshow in Florida that had bad paint, had a "2500" emblem on one door and a "1500" emblem on the other. wrong door label, and general poor fit/finish. It is a shame you got one of these Mexican Suburbans. There is a difference. Anyone buying one should demand an American one. Your dealer was poor by not telling you this and the repair dept. should have been able to fix your truck the 1st time. We are not talking about mind boggling troubles here. Lack of skills were your dealer's problems.
Lastly - it would seem that a lot of your problems were caused by poor dealer repairs. BELIEVE ME - I HATE GM DEALERSHIPS. I have had bad experience with my Corvette at a Chevy dealer. They treat you like low class and have no good repairmen. I now do all my own work-inc. warranty. A dealer will never touch any of my cars again. To watch my talented factory repairmen fix our vans makes me proud - but the local GMC dealers can't even do a brake job w/o problems. I feel that had your dealer been better he may have been able to solve your problems quickly and with pride - a seat risor should have only taken a few days to get!
Anyway - best of luck with your Ram. They are nice looking trucks - but quality at Chrysler is lacking from what I see. I am a proud GM employee who sees the quality that goes in our cars/trucks in America. I cannot say the same for Mexico and only wish the company would stop building a #1 product there!
From: Andre
Subject: 113,000+mi and still Cruising
Andre here. Came across your page and just had to say my piece. My family has two surbans that has given us 4 years and counting of dependable service. My mothers that is a 96' 2500 GMC with 113,000 +mi and my own a 96' 1500 Chevy with 50,000+ mi with modifications and upgrades.
We have been stranded only twice in the GMC. The first was on a trip to
Yosemite when the back right brake started to smoke. This was later found to
be the error of the service station that serviced the truck 3 days before.
The other time was in Baja Mexico, there was excessive corrosion on the
positive terminal. It was promptly cleaned, repaired and we were back on the
road within 20 minutes. Unfortunately when we got back from the trip the
battery had to be replaced. It finally decided to die after 80,000 miles.
Aside from these problems we have had no trouble following the regular
maintenance schedule.
As for my truck we have never been stranded in it and not a single problem to
date.
I am sorry to here about your problems with your vehicles and hope they will be resolved with speed and grace. I am compelled though to state that I take fanatical care of our trucks.......literally my idea of fun is to go fix and wash our trucks. That is why they are in such good operational order. I also must state that dealers and service technicians will only give precursory glances at minor problems such as squeaks, rattles and other annoying sounds. This is because more often than not the fact that they do not want to examine a phantom noise when they have four other cars lined up behind yours and a schedule to keep.
Remember your dealer "Appointments" I do how about you. My best advice I can give is to follow the recommended services closely and most of all especially with the smaller repairs FIX THEM YOURSELF!!!!!.. I cannot stress this enough, get some basic tools and a Chilton's manual. The dealer cannot give your car the close attention to detail that you demand, It simply isn't cost effective. Speaking of cost You save money when you service your car. How much do you spend to change your oil $19.95 if you don't Have a coupon and this is for only a stock filter, oil and disposal. It only costs me $13.65 for a high performance Delco filter and oil including disposal. I could get it even cheaper if I use the $3.95 filter instead of my $8.00 one. Note I dispose of my oil in Auto shop it is recycled there and I belive the school gets money in exchange for the oil.
Last point to make there might come a time when you will be stranded far from
help and you will have no choice but to wait, walk or fix the bloody thing.
Waiting might mean a cold night spent in the derelict.
With walking most people don't relize how far 25 miles is. I hike and camp
extensively and that is a two day hike!!!. Now the last choice, To Fix it,
if you have the will and the knowledge then the battle is 3/4 won and you are
verylikealy to dig yourself out. Also I keep a semi extensive tool kit in my
truck, It has helped many a time even down to the eyeglass repair kit.
From Andre age (17)
And the Mailloux family.
P.S We give loveing nicknames to our Trucks. Moms is the Burban and Mine is
the Hand of God 137.
Also your probably wondering how a teenager (me) got such a nice truck.If so
It is on permeant loan from my uncle. we often do not realize how fortunate
we are to drive such vehicles and will often take them for granted.
Unfortunaly there are a lot of people that cannot afford such trucks, much
less the gas bill (I was almost one of them). That is why cost cutting can be
a bit obsessive with me. But I do put the money where it counts.
From: Robert J
Subject: 1996 Suburban for sale
No problems.
Unless of course you are nit picky and want to count the dozen plastic pieces from different parts of the car rolling amid kids toys. Or if a clunk in the transmission when taking off somehow offends your sensibilities.
Or if you mind having the fillings shaken out of your teeth at 65 mph and no mechanic (4/4) can figure out how to stop it.
Or if your wife calls you to say that the door is falling off (invoking chauvinistic thoughts of mechanical ineptness in women) and when you come home to see you find out she is right and you have to eat crow. Now, about eating crow when questioning the possibility that a door is actually falling off it gets easier by the third time!!! (I am not kidding three doors barely hanging from the hinges).
Or if it is a problem to you that the sealing strip around the doors come off and hang out of the door (this is just an esthetic problem!!) Or if you replace the alternator twice (these things happen, after all the car does have 45,000 miles!!) or the battery for that matter. A really cool one is a whistling noise in the back. The kids say that is a little ghost in the gas tank (maybe!).
Seriously, anyone interested in a great 1996 Suburban driven by a little old lady to soccer games and back? Surely, some staunch Chevy advocate will put his/her (mostly his though! Wonder why?) money where their mouth is and buy this thing from me?
Well? Anyone want to make an offer for Roberts Suburban?
From: Rhonda & Mike
Subject: the Big Green LEMON!!
Hello,
I have been searching for a sight like this and finally found you!!! We have
a 1999 Chevy Suburban 1500 and have had nothing but problems with it since we
bought it in Dec. 1998. What a great Headache for Christmas!! I wish I had
a Christmas future ghost to tell me of the nightmares to come!!! We have had
3 sets of front brakes with the rotors(severe heat cracks)
2 sets of rear brakes
master cylinder
left and right calipers and hoses
proportioning valve
air cond relay switch
battery (dead)
Numerous squeaks and creeks (which of course ALL trucks do that)
then they said it was the running boards rubbing on the frame but they
removed them and to Their suprise it was still making the noise!!! I could
have told them that before they went to the trouble of removing the Running
boards! Now they say the noise is from dirt between the Leafsprings!!
Steering when turning to the Left made a CLUNK sound and come to find out
there wasn't any grease in ANY of the joints to the whole truck ( the
dealership said they did an inspection of the vehicle before the put it out
on the lot)
My trial and tribulations are minimal to others but I don't feel safe anymore
with the BRAKES maybe failing and killing those in our truck and the other
vehicle involved!!
We spoke to the infamous "customer service reps" at Corporate they stated
"they have never had any complaints on the Suburban!!" I guess they need to
update their files and get a clue!! Maybe they need all of us to copy your
site and mail it to them to download it to their data base!!
We are now attempting to get it bought back. Any thoughts or suggestions on
doing this would be greatly appreciated!! Thanks for your site it has giving
us more info to go on.
Thanks The Wells Family Ft. Myers, FL
I appreciate the time to Vent!!!
P.S. Our suburban has only 20,000 miles on it. We bought it with 000000!!
It is green hence the title subject
From: Chris
Subject: Lemon Chevy
Last year I bought a new '98 Chevy 1500 1/2 ton Z71 pickup from the local dealership...boy, am I sorry. On the 3rd of November, 18 months to the day since I bought the truck, it has been in the repair shop 18 times @ 54 days. I have the vehicle in for brake problems 6 times, 2 of which were for problems with my brakes failing completely when driving to and from work. And yes, I have had problems with the engine and each time the dealer tells me its bad fuel, however mysteriously, yesterday I received a letter concerning the fuel system in which Chevrolet wants me to bring my truck in for corrective actions to the fuel system, but "this is not a recall" ...yeah right. What about the recall on the brakes of Suburbans. My truck uses the exact same brakes as the Suburban, but no one has recalled the pickups......wonder why? I too have had wonderful response with 1-800-CHEVY-USA and customer care, or lack there of. The first time that my brakes failed completely, the 4th time I had problems with my brakes, I called customer care and filed a complaint and strangely, the very same day my complaint was closed by Chevrolet without any action being taken. I called a second time on November 3, when my brakes failed for the second time, 1-1/2 weeks after i just had the brakes inspected and was told that everything was O.K. and filed another complaint, and again nothing happened, except that i was offered 4 free oil changes for my inconvenience, i laughed and said no thank you (this is after 18 repair attempts in the vehicle's 18 month history). It was not until Chevy was notified that I filled for arbitration on the vehicle that I was contacted by Chevrolet, strange that this is the only way to get their attention. This time, they offered a 100,000 mile warranty if I agreed to wave my rights for filing arbitration or any other legal action against Chevrolet. I turned this down too. Now they are telling me to take their offer because the best thing that could come out of arbitration is that they would buy back my vehicle and then they would subtract depreciation from the vehicle and I wouldn't get anything out of the vehicle and that I would probably still owe on the vehicle because of the low blue book value. Again I told them I will see them in court. Yes, I too have had a wonderful (detect any sarcasm yet) experience with Chevrolet. I even pay the extra $50 a month for the extended service plan. So right now, I am in the middle of arbitration, with a 18 month old lemon that has nothing but problems, but I was assured when I picked my vehicle up two weeks ago that after 18 repair attempts, "Chevrolet is confident that they have fixed all of the problems with my vehicle." Well, I hope so, but its too late for me. Unfortunately, California lemon law is probably about the worst in the nation. I have to had the same problem 4 times within the first 12 months or 12,000 miles, which ever comes first. My first repair attempt was at 13,000 miles, funny how that always seems to happen. When talking to the dealer about my problem because "Chevrolet will not get involved with any dealer/customer conflicts" (Chevrolet Customer Care) I was told that with Chevrolet, the squeaky wheel gets the grease" (General Manager, Folsom Chevrolet). So far I have filed complaints against the dealership with the California Beauro of Automotive about a fault emergency brake cable that was worn half through that the dealer but a piece of rubber hose around to conceal the damage and against Chevrolet with the DOT National Highway Safety Board about the braking system, which also happens to be "redesigned for 1999",(do you think that GM knows there is a problem? Also Chevrolet has authorized 20,000 free brake pad services for 1998 pickup trucks because of a known defect in the brakes, but it is noted as a goodwill gesture on the sales invoice. Chevrolet did not mean to tell me this, but I got them mad and it slipped out. This promotion has expired, because their 20,000 "good will gestures" ran out.) This evening, in addition to writing you, I am also writing letters to the locals media, newspaper and television. On my truck I have a lumber rack, that I plan to use to attach a sign that explains about my problem and park it in front of the dealership from Friday evening to Sunday evening every weekend, depend on how arbitration goes, until the problem is resolved.
On a side note, I have had every problem that you have had and I sympathize with you. And just like you, I have not had problems with a particular part failing multiple times, just everything seems to fail. I call it the "Friday 3:00 car" because that was probably when it came down the assembly line in Texas. Also, I am willing to bet you have also experienced this problem with the AC fan....When on low speed, the blower motor makes a slight ticking noise..I have this problem once, and now it is doing it again, and one of our sales rep has a Buick and his car did the same thing. With the AC vents freezing the knee's, have you busted the vent exhausts with your knees? Another good experience I had was while coming back from a camping trip, I had a passenger in the back sit and we went over a pothole and when she came forward, the seat belt fell off and she hit the seat in front of her. Lastly, the main thing that I have learned, is that when your driving down the road and your brakes fail, HIT SOMETHING! It makes getting your money back a lot easier.
Sincerely,
Chris
From: Ron
Subject: Lemon Litigatin'
After sueing GM, Ford, Chrysler and others for thousands of consumers over the last 21 years, I have to tell you that you have one of the worst horror stories that I have ever seen. It was while surfing that I decided to try gm lemon, etc, when I saw the gmaclemon site and, lo and behold, your site pops up, complete with music! That's great! I have been a lemon law attorney in Ohio for 21 years, before there ever was a lemon law, and unfortunately your story is not something new. I strongly believe that it is only when people complain loud and long that the manufacturers realize that quality is cheaper than the bad press and word of mouth that comes from sour manufacturing procedures. The fundamental purpose of the lemon laws is to make sure that a financial incentive exists for the manufacturers to build a vehicle right in the first place, but they routinely refuse to buy back or replace bad cars because it is cheaper to sluff off the complainers, knowing as they do that most people will not fight long enough and hard enough to do much about it. They know that forevery ten people they sluff off only one or two will go to the next step of complaining. That if they sluff off those, then only a few more out of those will go to the next step. In other words, they save money by not living up to their warranty. As long as they do, they will continue to stall and delay consumers instead of doing what they should in the first place. What we need are more people who "see it through to the end", who fight it out and do not give up. When it becomes more expensive for a manufacture to fight with the consumer than it does to comply with the law in the first place, then that is when they will comply with the law. It is good to see someone who jammed GM. Thanks for letting me say my piece.
Ron Burdge, Dayton, Ohio
You can visit Ron's lemon law site at http://www.ohiolemonlaw.com/
From: Hans
Subject: Transmission problem on my Trailmaster
Hello GMC Lemon owners.
I love your site and will add some more disappointment to it with my 96 GMC Trailmaster, called also the Texas Cadillac we bought brand new. We own the nicest GMC Suburban conversion in Atlanta. Beautiful on the outside, white on top, fading to light brown towards the bottom. The interior outstanding with plenty of wood, TV, VCR. I put 98000miles on the truck without much problems.
However, on a recent trip to Destin Flordia, just when we left from our house in Atlanta, the transmission did not shift from 2nd to 3rd gear and just spun out over 35miles per hour. Being on the Hwy by this time, driving 35 miles per hour was very, very dangerous, since the regular "speed limit" in Atlanta is 80miles per hour. Using the emergency lane, we made it just in time to visit my trusted transmisison shop I visit once a year. He opened up the transmission but couldn't find any trouble. He confirmed that the transmission is out and needs to be replaced.
I couldn't believe it and drove the truck over to the GMC dealer ship "Steve Rayman in Union City, GA" to check it out. They charged me $400.- just to confirm that I need a new transmission. I got furious but had no other choice then to give in and have the transmission replaced for $ 2300.-
My point is the following. It is not understandable for me that a truck made for pulling boats and trailers can have such weak transmission!
I drive very easy, never force the car, never drove over 85 miles per hour, don't load heavy cargo into the truck, have no hitch to pull and the transmission went out!
Unreal, very disgusted and I will never, ever in my lifetime buy again any GMC product, period.
I like to tell you that once a year I have the transmission service with my local transmission shop I trust for the last 14 years. Just two weeks before the transmission went out, I just changed the fluid and filter, same procedure as every year. Because I believe that it is good for the transmission and will prevent trouble.
The GMC customer service phone number was of little help. They opened up a file. I wanted to have GMC pay for the faulty transmission and believe, if I would have pulled boats or trailers, it would have broken into pieces a lot earlier, possibly during the warranty period.
You guessed the answer from GMC customer service department. Too many miles and too little GMC service.
Never again GMC in my life.
Can somebody tell me were I can complain further to show GMC my disapointment? Write a letter, etc? Kindly advise.
Just for the record: On my new Ford Taurus in 7 years I drove 250.000 miles without any trouble, exempt brakes, tires. Ford trucks will be my next choice.
From: Butterball
Subject: Truck and Bus Employee
sorry about your trouble i work at the truck and bus plant in moraine ohio. i find your site very comedic! it sounds like you brought that burb during a
strike year, which means those workers did not care how they built it! i say oyu did the right thing in posting your site. but give g.m. a chance how bout
a silverado?
god luck with your dodge. sorry about my writing however i just got my computer and has a lazy fat beer - drinking union worker i will fix it later i think
"burp"
o you can post this sighned butterball.
Thanks for the GM perspective BB! :-)
To: Abuse@GMCLemon.com
From: Hudson
Subject: Your Burb
It is quite obvious that you are certainly not mechanically inclined by the verbal daitride you've touched on.
GMC have, and will continue to mass produce the best truck on the market. Best overall safety records, reliability, performance, product quality, dependability and most importantly.... aftermarket support.
I am not surprised GM bought back the Suburban from you after you verbal abuse with so many dealers, GM reps,etc. It is your misunderstanding of the system. First of all, you should have invested in a legal counselor, then prepared a writ to force the dealer (not GMC) to take back the vehicle, then demand a replacement. Your knowledge of consumer law is also poor. Your web site is of poor taste, and your derogatory comments concerning GMC are also rude and distasteful.
In review of your historical analysis, it may be that you are a very hefty person, drive like Evel Knieval, enjoy burning up brake pads, need a driving lesson or siimply should not own one of the world's finest vehicles. Take your pick, now buy a Ford.
Hmmm. I don't remember verbally abusing anyone or even raising my voice. I think he must have me confused with some other, less stable, victim of General Motors.